The Realest I Ever Wrote

Shit's deep. Thanks to Ziller for the major, major software tutorial, and to some guy in China for inspiring me to new heights of meaning.


At 8/08/2007 6:04 PM, Blogger Colonel D. Williams (Ret.) said...

Straight edge KG is a good look.

At 8/08/2007 6:06 PM, Blogger TheHype said...

Okay... FD dabbin photoshoppin now? I need a new job...

At 8/08/2007 7:31 PM, Anonymous brendo said...

Fuckin' creepy as hell. Both the pic and the fact that I've been writing the final paper for my grad seminar on autoethnography today, and the first two pages are the story of the first time I heard "Seeing Red" in my friend's truck.

The odds?

At 8/08/2007 7:46 PM, Blogger dennislu said...

"The Xs, nay, shamrocks, means I'm better than you."
-xKevinxGarnettxTruxTillxDeathx obviously.

At 8/08/2007 9:47 PM, Blogger T. said...

I think I was in that pit.

Reggie Miller to Boston?!

At 8/08/2007 11:16 PM, Anonymous padraig said...

that is the most jaw-dropping image I've ever seen on FD. I think that says more about me than FD, but whatever.

It made me wonder if it's just a KG/Ian comparison or also equating KG's move to Boston to the move from Minor Threat to Fugazi (albeit without the transitionary phase in Embrace). Either way it makes so much sense that I can't believe I've never thought of it.

Fine work, Shoals, fine work indeed, although I must also curse you b/c I know I'm now going to waste far too much time trying to match NBA players with old HC icons. Kobe/Greg Ginn instantly springs to mind.

At 8/09/2007 1:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

uh, it is not ok, to uh, dunk on people beacause THEY ARE SHORT! it is not ok to dunk on people because they are UNCORDINATED! it is not ok to dunk on people beacuse they are HERBATRONS!

-oh i see you tim duncan, eating your fucking ice cream cone!

At 8/09/2007 1:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

uh, it is not ok, to uh, dunk on people beacause THEY ARE SHORT! it is not ok to dunk on people because they are UNCORDINATED! it is not ok to dunk on people beacuse they are HERBATRONS!

-oh i see you tim duncan, eating your fucking ice cream cone!

At 8/09/2007 2:36 AM, Anonymous try said...


At 8/09/2007 7:34 AM, Blogger Wayne said...

if KG is ian mckaye, kevin durant must be tommy carroll.

At 8/09/2007 1:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Kobe/Greg Ginn instantly springs to mind."


At 8/09/2007 2:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is off topic and kinda under the radar, but I gotta say I am pumped about Juan Carlos Navarro coming to the NBA (most likely). That guy has sick game.

So who would be Steve Ignorant?

Dig the pics link...

At 8/09/2007 2:03 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

Our League Could Be Your Life, Pt 1:

If Kobe=Ginn and KG=Mackaye*, then:

Shaq= Rollins. Nuff said. That analogy makes its own gravy.

TMac= JMascis- (jaw dropping skill, but not quite awake enough to every really rule the world)

Extra P= Watt (still mourning the loss of Boon/Cybertoine)

Jesus= Bob Mould. I dunno, Sweet Ray's always seemed kinda...sweet.

Starbury/Franchise= Westerburg (fucked up, short lived, and ultimately unconsequential brilliance)

I can't think of who'd be Albini, Thurston, and Lee though.

*actually KG seems more like the workaholic Ginn to me.

At 8/09/2007 2:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

did i just hear correctly on ESPN radio that the celtics are asking reggie miller to come out of retirement! this whole thing could go to another level of surreality....

At 8/09/2007 2:28 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

I thought about it some more- depending on what you think he's known for, Albini is either Nash or Kidd. Sure, neither of them's as quotable, but everyone and anyone would want them throwing assists/behind the faders.

OR: he's Iverson. Quotable, skilled, AND a bad-ass.

Stephen Jackson & Baron Davis= Gibby & Leary?

At 8/09/2007 3:09 PM, Blogger MC Welk said...

Ziller's Software Tutorial sounds like a fantasy camp.

At 8/09/2007 3:43 PM, Anonymous padraig said...

pm genius: well, you really took it in an arty, post-punk direction. thing is, that book was written by an indie rock critic and so it's about indie rock bands; the reason it touches on hardcore is b/c there was a weird, infinitely cool space in time (like 79-83/4 or so) before definitions set in where it seemed perfectly normal for husker du and the meat puppets to be on black flag's label. unfortunately husker du and the replacements (whose genius, btw, was anything but "unconsequential"-it's a tossup as to whether they or the pixies had more influence on the alternative rock explosion of the 90s) wound up putting out lame pop records on major labels by the end of their careers. on the other hand, even though mackaye also went in more avant-garde directions fugazi was still, ethically and in spirit, 100% a hardcore band no matter what kind of music they were playing. I'm not trying to be a snob, but when the KG/mackaye comparison has everything to do with the union of passion and integrity it's a real stretch to put dudes like j mascis, mould and westerburg in with mackaye. that said...

KG is hella intense, sure, but unlike Kobe his intensity doesn't alienate everyone around him and drive people away b/c it's tempered by him being such a good-natured dude. and, again unlike Kobe, it's impossible to conceive anyone accusing KG of being a jerk who's massive ego who broke up the greatest band/team of all time.

I'm also slightly offended by your equation of the mighty D Boon with a slob like Antoine Walker.

on the other hand I did thorougly enjoy S-Jax+Baron=Gibby+Leary and the thought that Albini is like the PG of indie rock is pretty cool as well.

the real question, of course, is who the fuck is sam mcpheeters?

At 8/09/2007 4:11 PM, Blogger Ty Keenan said...

Albini would need to be a point that doesn't get enough credit for his own scoring prowess. Would that make him Nash?

Who is David Yow?

Cosign with padraig on the Boon/Toine comparison. D being kinda fat does not excuse that.

At 8/09/2007 4:19 PM, Blogger Mr. Six said...

My initial list of ponderables:

Darby Crash
John Lydon

At 8/09/2007 4:24 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

Padraig: I didn't take it in any direction besides sticking to the bands listed in that book. I don't find anything weird about those bands being on the same label at that time in history.
< Rumsfeld > Are Mascis and Mould not as influential as Mackaye? You betcha! < /Rumsfeld>

Btw, Bob Mould or Ray Allen can be as sweet as they want- just an observation, not a value judgment.

As far as the (declining) influence of the Replacements and the Pixies, that ship's sailed, doggie. "ultimately" is the key word there. Today's ripoff artists aren't even ripping off Nirvana ripping off the Pixies. To tell you the truth, I don't know who they're ripping off. I used to think they were stuck on the third wave of grunge (ugh...Seven Mary Three, Bush), but it's really not like that. I've been stuck around modern rock radio for the last couple of months and DAMN have white male vocalists ever started getting really vocally histronic and high pitched! I don't know WHERE the fuck that came from? When did it become okay to sound like such a wuss? ('Lips of an angel?' WTF?!) And people want to call Billy Corgan whiny? (okay, that's still valid)

I like your analysis of why Kobe is more Ginn than KG. Up until this Boston jaunt, and most importantly- before this post, KG's seemed to me like (deep breath, I really mean this) a Can fan surrounded by a bunch of kids who ask him if he's heard the Mars Volta. And after time spent in the woodshed, many cds burned, the best he can get is for Ricky Davis to listen to Godflesh, and think back to that one sweet year where he had a couple of 40 year olds to jam with who liked Pink Floyd better when they were "The" Pink Floyd. That, of course, would be Latrell and Cassell.

As far as Boon=Toine, yeah, that was just lazy weight-related observation. I was in a rush to get back to the pool.

Now, for the burning question: is Phoenix/GState-style Small Ball the new slow/quietBUILDUPTOGETLOUDFAST Mogwai/Gybe-channelling Slint?
And does that mean the Raptors are Explosions in the Sky or And You Will Know Us By Our yaddayaddayadda?

At 8/09/2007 4:27 PM, Anonymous Kaifa said...

And now Allan Houston wants to give it another try? Next season is going to look like a zombie movie with all these corpses running around. The only rumor I hope is true is Oakley planning his comeback. It's going to be interesting to see what he does to Varejao after his first flop

At 8/09/2007 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Darkofan: A post(and comments), as impenetrable as Chinese script, it must all be brilliant.as usual. This commentator is content to abide more on the Reggie unretirement rumor. ( Also heard a Charles Oakely unretirment rumor, but not assocaited with any team.)

At 8/09/2007 6:01 PM, Anonymous padraig said...

pmg: fair enough, dude.

I thing your KG observation is still largely true. dude IS that cat who's been stuck with the mars volta kids (or, in keeping w/the mackaye vein, a dude who's favorite album is the Embrace LP surrounded by winsome teens asking him if he's ever heard of dashboard confessional) for 10 years, he's just too nice to to be an elitest bastard about it, probably unlike us. Against all the odds he's been able to retain at least a semblance of humbleness and perspective despite being a potentially genre-redefining cat. decidedly un-ginnish (and similar to mackaye).

and on the replacements/pixies...just b/c bands don't know doesn't mean it didn't happen, you know? like most young kids playing basketball probably have no idea that paul arizin was (at least from everything i've read) the godfather of the jump shot but that doesn't stop them from emulating kobe or ray allen's shooting form. What I mean is that an influence is still there even if it's been deconstructed and tweaked and tossed in with a bunch of other stuff so as to be unrecognizeable.

I think of Nellie Ball, especially in its' current 2.0 version, as akin to early napalm death, before they become a generic death metal band, e.g. total madcap noise that challenges the boundaries of what music/basketball is, "chaos non musica" if you will.

if nothing else, slint totally totally rules.

At 8/09/2007 7:29 PM, Blogger nein said...


i don't think kobe would be ginn because he came into it so young. maybe he'd be harley, but kobe's such a pussy on the inside that it's definitely not a fair comparison to harley. marbury might be harley because he's so tragic, but then again the cro mags WERE (are) the best band on the planet; stars is more uppercut material.

i really don't think these comparisons work because no one in hardcore has made the big time (with the exception of the beastie boys, who are like dwyane wade circa 95, and are like shavlik randolph or something). the only real corollaries i can think of are jay williams = leeway first LP but even then eddie and co didnt get any royalty checks and jay williams is still doin better than my whole neighborhood. every great hc band has at best some members getting rich off something else in their later years, but the cream of the NBA crop are walking demi-gods. none of you clowns even recognized the tommy carroll reference.. leaving that out when you talk hc is like forgetting about shawn kemp when youre talking power. for people with internet access im disappointed.

someone just IMed me with shaq/kobe are bloodclot/harley and i guess that works. i love the NBA and the imagery brought to the table here is fine but i guess i'd rather get down to the inside out ny 7" insert than the sublime muted tragedy of ray allen's milwaukee years.

but this is definitely fun, although it works better with random euros and 8th men than with superstars.
wally scezerbiak = in my eyes
drazen petrovic or tony kukoc = true blue
allen iverson = no warning
lebron = hatebreed
dikembe mutombo = sick of it all (all eras). relevant in the 90s and even has a bit in him today, just not so much
ray allen = madball. loyal following comes out of the woodwork at crucial moments. still kickin at about 90%, was always a bit of an antecedent
grant hill = underdog
gilbert arenas = crunch time
and for all you DC pansies
alec mackaye = kobe
skip groff = coach phil
ian svenonius = john starks (but not as cool)
guy pizzicato = nikoloz Tskitishvili hehe
and of course...
derek scace = wilt chamberlain

hope my choices weren't too meathead for all you azzerad heads.

At 8/09/2007 7:39 PM, Blogger am said...

Wow - I never so many FD readers were enmeshed in the DC ethos (which then exfoliates, via time's inevitable march and indie pedant's widely cast net, to include the Pixies and Mascis and all the rest). Garnett sees Red insomuch as he's had enough of all the interrogative murmurs re: playoffs and realization-of-paradigm establishing skill sets. I used to drink heavily at a Hyde Park establishment on 53rd St where regulars would mention paying cab fare to and from KG HS games for the pure like ecstasy of it. I laud 13 songs and Repeater and the Argument, but let's be real: KG is to Ian MacKaye as Tiger Woods is to the Wheelchair Assasins portrayed in Infinite Jest - ideology is not an issue, bro - it's all about being purely responsive to the absolute limits of one's skills.

At 8/09/2007 9:05 PM, Anonymous creamsoda said...

we're in wizznuts territory.

btw this esoteric discussion on the founding fathers of the indie movement makes me really happy to be part of this community. it's like being in college with people love reading pitchfork and the truehoop.

i'm in college and trust me it does not happen much.

keep up the great work.

At 8/09/2007 9:06 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

alright, meatheads:

Pete Carrill is Dwid from Integrity

Matt Barnes is the fretless-through-a-ProCo Rat- bassist from Bloodlet

AC Green is Shai-Hulud

Jeff Bzdelik & the Air Force Academy are Iceburn

the retired Tim Hardaway is Jim Goad

Hoffa Araujo is Flipper

Oscar Schmidt is Empire

At 8/09/2007 9:13 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

Ok, one more and I'll quit, these Virginia Military Institute teams channelling Westhead-era LMU are totally Orthrelm, or at least Zach from Hella.

At 8/10/2007 11:54 AM, Anonymous Sweat of Ewing said...

So who is the G.G. Allin of the NBA, in that case?

At 8/10/2007 12:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hmmm closest thing to gg allin would be.....stephen jackson All he has to do to fully comply with this is to throw bodily debris into the crowd lol.

OK i figured out Steve Ignorant/Intelligent
steve ignorant = dennis rodman and that has nothing to do with piercings or body art, but with their respective "game's"

At 8/10/2007 12:23 PM, Anonymous padraig said...

nein: I did think about the silliness of making the comparisons given the vast disparity in $ but, I mean, it's just a game after all and besides, does making the "big time" give something any more value? a band is great b/c they're great, not b/c they're able to navigate the murky waters of a&r reps and record execs and sell a million records or whatever (if they were even aiming for commercial success in the first place-see crass and all that came after them).

also, the cro-mags? really, dude? as if it's not bad enough that they had a big hand in the dumbing down/machoizing of hc (and that most of their music is 3rd rate crossover) they were also like #2 on the krishna train behind ray cappo. i do like the ian svenonius reference though.

pmgenius: jim goad's misanthropy is like super-super-intricate and chock-full of obscure, arcane shite. timmy hardaway is just a dude who feels uncomfortable around gay people. i'm not saying that goad is somehow more worthy, but it's a tough comparison.

also, araujo to flipper? I don't even like flipper but that's kinda disrespectful.

actually, this where i must respectfully diverge from you dudes. i've never been into youth-crew (except guerilla biscuits), the later earth crisis-type metalcore (except for chokehold, who ruled), revelation records etc. I love a lot of the old sst/dischord stuff but my tastes and roots are on the diy, political side e.g. peace-punk, d-beat, etc. I think we're just working with two different frameworks. it was a fun little thought exercise though.

At 8/10/2007 12:25 PM, Anonymous padraig said...

i'm sorry, *gorilla* not guerilla of course. however in retrospect wouldn't guerilla biscuits have been any infinitely cooler name?

At 8/10/2007 12:54 PM, Blogger brian said...

but who would be hr? ron artest?

At 8/10/2007 1:50 PM, Blogger personalmathgenius said...

padraig- I mapped Hoffa onto Flipper because of the severe disappointment I experienced when I finally heard them. I asked a friend of mine at a radio station about them and he said "oh yeah, you would probably really dig them" and it wasn't that I didn't get it, I just was completely unmoved. Araujo- well hey, SOMEBODY's seen something in him < strike > been fooled by him before < /strike >, be it Rob Babcock, or just the big men of the Mountain West.
re: Goad- hey, if we're looking for ironic, subtle, dual-meaning quotes on the other half of these mappings, methinks its gonna be hard going. I just saw two guys who say things that piss people off and went with it.
This might be a more interesting exercise if we limited the isomorphisms to the same time period. Or genre. To be honest, hardcore isn't my caffeine source. I find like one or two bands every couple of years that I like, but pretty much had my taste for 'youth crews' ruined by a roomie in college who listened to both kinds of music- hardcore AND punk. Having said that, if there's an lig equivalent to Neurosis or any of their imitators that I like (Louisiana state bird & Eqyptian goddess-named bands go here), let's hear em.
I prefer to sprechenzi true school, krautrock, early 90s/late 80s English FX rock. (misnomer- most of those shoegazers couldn't rock their way out of a wet dust jacket)

At 8/10/2007 3:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


At 8/11/2007 12:27 PM, Blogger nein said...

i love crust and diy and all that shit too. probably have a grip of all that crap collecting dust in my old room.
but yo the cro mags.. i dont really want to get all emotional here but they're the realest and only band to ever exist. im sure youre knowledgable about the band but read up about em a little more and spin age of quarrel on repeat for an afternoon and see what you get. ill take one cro mags song over all sports. anyone who knows will agree with me

yot.. also ill. that stuff is pretty much the last great american folk music, all that nyhc, and the bad style of youth crew and hardedgemen in the chokehold era doesnt take away from it.

yeah.. the cro mags. learn somethin


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