Information Dump

--Can you people honestly say that you are pulling for Antonio McDyess, Kevin Garnett, PJ Brown, or Damon Stoudemire to get a ring over LAMAR ODOM? Wouldn't that be the circle of life in its completion?

--The muxtape competition hit a snag as muxtape exploded the day after we advertised the contest and lots of people lost their songs, but we'll see what we can do.

--I feel like I'm slipping into Simmons/observational comic mode here, but let me ask two questions about TNT broadcasts: (1) Does anyone else experience the "Charmed phenomenon," in which you wake up in the morning, turn on the TV to see Charmed, rendering you speechless and without explanation until you realize you went to sleep just after turning off TNT? (2) Isn't it weird, to the point of being emotionally uncomfortable, to see all these T-Mobile commercials with Dwyane Wade in them during the playoffs, when the guy hasn't been the least bit relevant for the past two years? There's some bad juju surrounding these spots that I just can't shake.

New rules for playoff injuries (I'm talking to you, Manu & Chauncey):

1. Once an injury is brought into the public conversation, it can no longer be used as an excuse, nor can it be used to deem somoene "heroic."

2. "Refusing to use an injury as an excuse" [see Exhibit B] is in its very nature using the injury as an excuse by calling it to people's attention.

3. If the "injured" player is playing, then he is not "injured" and should be treated the same as any other player, not as Willis Reed.

Bethlehem Shoals is sick, and I'm busy, but feel free to discuss the D-Fisher/Brent Barry conundrum below.



At 5/28/2008 11:12 AM, Blogger Sweat of Ewing said...

It was a foul and I kind of wish it was called as such, because it should have been a non-shooting foul. Meaning that the game would have gone to overtime, and I could have watched more Lamar (until he inevitably fouled out trying to guard Duncan on a switch). I am selfish.

At 5/28/2008 11:25 AM, Blogger jawaan oldham said...

The way Barry and Pop handled the "was it or wasn't it" question made me hate the Spurs a lot less. On the other hand, I think Pop is manipulating karma in a devious plot to win another title, but still.

At 5/28/2008 11:45 AM, Blogger Christopher said...

I too have fallen asleep with TNT on woken up to Charmed. The show is terrible in a surreal way, it feels like a TV show in a movie. Its so bad that I can't believe its real.

I want the Closer and Saving grace to fail miserably. I think Kyra Sedgwick is the devil.

At 5/28/2008 11:49 AM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

SOE is right that it was a non-shooting foul, so Barry wouldn't have gotten 3 shots. He took a dribble after the contact, so there's no way you could argue continuation. I understand why they didn't make the call (Lakers "deserved" to win), and there were several questionable calls (shot clock violation when the ball hit the rim, some bullshit charging calls) against LA, but for the sake of fairness, they HAD to make the call.

I think the Lakers would've won in overtime anyway. The Spurs were tired, and Kobe was pissed at himself for letting the Spurs back in during the last minute. He would've had 5-10 points himself. Still, though....that didn't look good.

At 5/28/2008 11:50 AM, Blogger Christopher said...

It WAS a foul. but Bones made the mistake of trying to escape dribble instead of going straight up after the fake. Barry said afterwards that he "didn't see Fisher," But then why would he have pump faked to begin with? Game 1 really hurts now. I just hope Popp realizes that we can't have a retirement home for a bench any longer. The league is getting younger and younger, DET and LA get huge contributions for their yong benches and are developing for the future. The King is dead.

At 5/28/2008 12:14 PM, Blogger ryan dunbar said...

christopher is correct. he should have let it fly once he felt contact coming. once he took dribble to try and improve his look crawford was off the hook and went all futbol advantage on him.

as i watch these playoffs i continue to ask myself, is anyone still on the court more FD than odom?

At 5/28/2008 12:22 PM, Blogger morgenstern said...

I think they should have called the foul. Non-shooting as all of you have stated, but definitely a foul. On a purely philosophical level i kinda hate the whole leaning into a standing jumping defender to draw the foul, it just doesn't seem fair to the defense.

But that wasn't really the case here, fish was out of control and barry actually tried to dodge the impact.

The whole refs letting players dictate the outcome at the end of the game is just crap imho, i mean the best way of doing that is just calling the game consistently.

At 5/28/2008 12:29 PM, Blogger Brian said...

I love/hate the Charmed phenomenon. It is crazy when I fall asleep to the after-game talk and awake to see midgets and whores shooting around in white orbs. On the other hand, that mean-looking witch with the pretty face and glorious rack is fun to look at.

Many things irk me:
1. That sensationalist writers pretend that only things that happen in the last few seconds count. Abbott's call for the refs to apologize for the last no-call seems ridiculous...why shouldn't they also apologize for the shot clock reset, or TP's layup after he magically changed pivot feet, or every other call?? I don't get it.

2. The fact that there's so much art in the act of "drawing" fouls. Everyone wants to enroll Brent Barry in the Ginobli school of call-getting. When they say "drawing" they mean the arche-trace, as what happened must be invented and then immediately hermeneutically interpreted, an instant historical revisionism.

3. That I'm forced to root for the Lakers. Put this old dog to sleep. Liberated fandom stops when it comes to the Spurs.

At 5/28/2008 12:30 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

1. I am mostly plagued by Charmed because it cuts off my daytime Law and Order revelry, and gives me an hour to kill before Countdown. Fuck that. Also, I have the hots for Alyssa Milano, and am always half-tempted to watch when they give her a sexy storyline.

2. Joey and I spend a lot of time arguing about the Spurs, mostly because half of it is spent agreeing:

Me saying the foul didn't matter, even though it did happen

Joey on the hard truths before and after that moment

At 5/28/2008 12:32 PM, Blogger ~CW~ said...

Definitely a non-shooting foul, and would have been nice to continue one of the few interesting games of the last couple of weeks. All of these road teams getting blown out gets boring, so hopefully the Pistons and Spurs are awake for Game Five.

Shame for Barry he doesn't get added to the list of the non-Big Three who had huge parts in Spurs championships, including Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr and Speedy Claxton in 2003, Robert Horry and Joe Johnson's shattered face in 2005 and Robert Horry's hip and David Stern in 2007.

At 5/28/2008 12:33 PM, Blogger Dr. Lawyer IndianChief said...

People, people...I didn't *ACTUALLY* mean for you to discuss the Fisher/Barry conundrum.

At 5/28/2008 12:46 PM, Blogger salt_bagel said...

The big conundrum for me wasn't Fish/Barry, it was watching the whole game in slack-jawed amazement at how bad the calls were through the whole game. If you're the NBA, how can you abide such a poorly reffed game in such a big spotlight? The Timmy travel, the shot clock, the foul, no foul shots for Kobe, and no consistency whatsoever on charge/block for either team.

You just knew it would end horribly. But LA deserved it. They got the early lead, and every time the Spurs got close, they restretched it. It's all you can ask in a playoff road game.

And I hadn't even realized my muxtape was lost; so thanks in that regard. What are they thinking with the 12 song maximum?

At 5/28/2008 12:47 PM, Blogger Ziller said...

To get this thread back on track ...


WV: lrspk -- Lamar speaks!

At 5/28/2008 1:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

- It was a foul.

- As a Spurs fan, I'm somewhat glad it wasn't called.

- I do not by any stretch understand what people mean when they say a team deserves to win to defend a win that was in question.

- Lamar Odom is all in your head. It's not what he does, but what you're convinced he could do that makes him such a nighmare matchup.

At 5/28/2008 1:11 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

I've always wondered: Are your comments coming from both Ben and Melissa?

Buck Harvey understands what it means

At 5/28/2008 1:16 PM, Blogger Carter Blanchard said...

I sometimes come home from work specifically to watch Charmed. When I was in school last year and able to stay up later I'd watch about probably near 7 episodes a week. If my DVR wasn't a shared DVR that's already near capacity, it probably would be filled almost exclusively with Charmed. I'm partially considering buying the DVDs of every season.

In related news, Ty frequently suggests I seek therapy.

At 5/28/2008 1:50 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

Not to derail the Charmed discussion, but what *I* meant by "deserved" is that the Lakers led the whole game and had many, many more questionable or straight up bad calls against them than the Spurs did. So, if the Spurs suffered one bad call at the end of the game, the overall balance is still toward the Lakers.

Maybe that's what Buck Harvey says, but I didn't read it.

At 5/28/2008 2:04 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

"Deserve" has got nothing to do with it. As the Spurs demonstrated in Game 1, you need to play well for the full 48 minutes to win at this level. The Lakers didn't do that last night but were instead bailed out by a notoriously anti-Spur official. So let's quiet all this talk about the Lakers deserving it or being the better team. We really have no idea who the better team is because this series has been stacked against the Spurs from the beginning with the Champion Air debacle and Manu's ankle (even his lone good game this series was the result of scorching hot three point shooting, not the usual assortment of Manu dunks, layups, flips and finger rolls -- a pretty clear indication of a severely injured ankle, and I can't overemphasize the significance of losing a player who finished in the top 10 of MVP voting).

What's particularly frustrating about this is that I spent a good deal of time yesterday decrying the notion that the NBA would fix the playoffs just because David Stern is on record saying he would prefer the Lakers in the Finals. I think it's appalling that you only hear this about the NBA, and agree that there is a very anti-semitic undertone to it. But, good lord, it certainly doesn't help matters when Crawford is assigned to this game and blows a deciding call a year after being suspended for allowing personal animosity towards Duncan to influence his reffing, and a mere week after jabbing his finger into Popovich's chest (for what it's worth, the Spurs lost all three of these notorious Crawford affairs).

I still don't believe in any conspiracy theories and think it was one blown call at the worst possible moment but it's a HUGE problem for the NBA when even the most die-hard fans worry about these things, or when a guy like Simmons can look like a prophet for saying this way back on April 21st(!): "Wait until this "joke" scenario makes me a legend when it actually comes true: The Spurs are derailed in Game 7 by WWE-worthy officiating along the lines of that in the 2002 Kings-Lakers series, followed by everyone's being cool with it because we all were hoping for a Celtics-Lakers Finals anyway. Screw you, San Antonio! The NBA — it's FANNNNNN-tastic!"

At 5/28/2008 2:11 PM, Blogger Amphibian said...


The above link is a "Ranking of the Best NBA Players" by various metrics like PER and Wins Produced.

Amir Johnson ranks between 15 and 64 in the Lig. What the fuck do the Pistons have riding the pine here and how do we get him more burn?

WV - iwflm: I WILL flop. - Manu.

At 5/28/2008 2:12 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Actually, Simmons was apparently pushing this spiel at least as far back as March 26 (before the regular season was even over!)when he gave this prediction on the Spurs: "The third seed and a controversial demise in Round 2 after the Lakers benefit from a 65-10 free throw advantage in Game 7."

And this obviously wasn't game 7 of the 2nd round and the Lakers didn't have a 65-10 free throw advantage, but it is a terrible day for the league when the nation's most prominent sports writer is correctly predicting 2 MONTHS IN ADVANCE that the Lakers will beat the Spurs thanks to highly questionable officiating.

At 5/28/2008 2:16 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

Wait, I'm sorry: When did the Spurs play at a high level for the full 48 minutes?

I'm speaking for myself, not the grand tradition of competitive sports: That kind of win irks me, and in a controversy, I'm hardly sympathetic to the team that depends on last-second revival.

At 5/28/2008 2:28 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

You can always count on Brick!

Since you brought up free throw differential. Here's last night: 26-19 San Antonio. The Lakers backcourt took ZERO free throws.

For the series, it's 76-74 San Antonio.

At 5/28/2008 2:28 PM, Blogger Sweat of Ewing said...

Brickowski, the Spurs got easily as many (and likely more) questionable calls to go their way during that game than the Lakers. Sucks to lose a game that way, and I wish they had called it, but I don't think conspiracy is a bit harsh a judgment.

At 5/28/2008 2:32 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Shoals, I was referring to the fact that the Spurs outplayed the Lakers for 3 quarters of Game 1 but lost. Last night was much closer for most of the game, yet people are acting like the Laker's should have been awarded the game merely because they were ahead by 2 with 2 seconds left.

What kind of win irks you?

And, regardless of your sympathies, the rules are the rules, and plenty of games have been won or lost in the last 2 seconds. The bottom line is that it was a clear foul, in the center of the court, and because it wasn't called Barry was forced to throw up an out of rhythm heave from 5 feet behind the line.

At 5/28/2008 2:37 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Recluse, what's your point? FT's will never be perfectly even and 26-19 is a pretty insignificant disparity. Further, it shouldn't even be surprising given that the Spurs have allowed fewer free throws than the Lakers all season.

Again, as I said above, I don't believe in conspiracy theories and spent a good amount of time yesterday insisting to other Spurs fans that Crawford would have no impact on the game. Now I feel a little foolish.

At 5/28/2008 2:41 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

Again, we're now squarely in the realm of my subjective preferences:

-Coming back from 20 down behind an absolutely brilliant performance from the game's best player is cool with me

-A lifeless team that just happens to get some key baskets from a random vet, unable to close the gap until, with under a minute left, Kobe makes a stupid mistake. And then, after numerous questionable calls in the first half, which allowed the Spurs to stay in the game then, there's one bad one on a play that could've given them the win on free throws.

The second one offends my sensibilities.

And about this injury stuff: Chandler and West were banged-up when they took the Spurs seven games.

At 5/28/2008 2:46 PM, Blogger J said...

speaking of injuries... kobe hasn't mentioned the pinkie once in months

and brick - just because the missed foul call (which it was) was on the last play of the game does not make it anymore or less missed or game-altering than any of the other missed calls... the only difference is you're bitching about this one

At 5/28/2008 2:55 PM, Blogger ~CW~ said...

I don't understand how the Game 1 loss is unfair to the Spurs. A team that's been known to go through severe droughts went against the MVP, known for his scoring outbursts, and both of a drought coincided with a scoring outburst in the final eighteen minutes of the game. Manu's ankle and sleeping on a plane surely had some effect, but the inability to check the Mamba, win on the road and score consistently (a problem that's plagued them all season/postseason, regardless of sleeping arrangements or Argentinian ankles) were far more telling in that game.

At 5/28/2008 3:12 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

"A lifeless team that just happens to get some key baskets from a random vet, unable to close the gap until, with under a minute left, Kobe makes a stupid mistake."

See, maybe this is why we've always seen the Spurs so differently. I thought last night had the makings of a vintage Spurs pounding-the-rock type win. I'm sure you're all well aware that these Spurs teams have been built upon this philosophical foundation:

“When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before.” — Jacob Riis

I've always admired the Spurs continual ability to persevere even when there are no apparent signs of progress, probably in part because it's something that I struggle with in my own life. It's the epitome of mental toughness (is there any other kind of toughness?) Too many teams in this league give up -- on themselves and on their team's systems -- in the face of adversity (look at the Suns and Mavs as recent macro examples with an infinite number of micro examples playing out every night of the season).

I, too love the Hawks, Hornets and other examples of unfulfilled potential, because I can identify with that struggle to get your shit together. But the Spurs are where I want to end up. They're grown. They know who they are more than any team in the league, and aren't plagued with the nagging anxieties and insecurities of youth.

Last night, where you saw a "lifeless team that just happened to get some key baskets from a random vet" I saw a team that continued to fight until the full 48 minutes expired. I saw a team that kept striking the rock each time the Lakers extended the lead and put itself in a position to extend the game into overtime when the Lakers would (hopefully) crumble.

The mere fact that it's always a vet should tell you that it's not accident but design. Last week many on this site decried the notion of "clutch" (an argument that really should've been settled years ago when NBA Jam included "Clutch" as an attribute on par with "Dunk"), but can't we agree that a lot of what would conceivably make someone clutch has to do with confidence? And that confidence, in basketball and in life, is often developed by experience, practice and repetition? Of course Barry or Finley or Horry or Kerr will produce in big moments. They've already been there and passed those tests. You know what you're getting from those guys and it isn't potential.

At 5/28/2008 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: Shoals - I speak for both of us :)

Harvey always gets it.

The officiating was just bad. Piss-poor throughout. But the Spurs weren't the only ones to benefit from momentum-changers earlier. Was I the ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD who saw Jordan Farmar land and thus travel before releasing the ball on his pass to Sasha Vujucic for that devastating 4-point play?

I watch a lot of games, and the Spurs just don't foul when it counts. Mamba and his team's low attempts don't indicate anything other than the Spurs ability to defend with their feet.

At 5/28/2008 3:20 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

CW, it is possible that Game 1 had more to do with Kobe waiting until the second half, but it could have just as easily been older team running on little rest ran out of gas. As Henry put it, "If you were writing a movie script, and wanted to dream up some kind of super-obvious scenario that would make it look like a team was negatively affected by fatigue, you might sketch out something like Wednesday's Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals: San Antonio drastically outplayed the Lakers for much of the night, and had a big lead. But in the late stages of the game, they lost their edge, missed shots they usually make -- while looking exhausted -- and lost to a fresher team by a shot or two at the buzzer."

At 5/28/2008 3:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW - I am not a Kobe-hater, but I wanted to punch him in the face when I saw his mocking, head-shaking scowl when asked if Barry was fouled. Moments like those explain why people like me believe that he is a transcendent ball player and a bad person. His dismissive response was pretty sickening. Someone postulated on another blog this week that Kobe is a sociopathic personality. Yep - unable to see anything other than his own goals, whether it's reacting in a sportsmanlike way or just reading another human to gauge consent.

At 5/28/2008 3:33 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

As far as the injuries to West and Chandler, they clearly didn't impair their play the way Manu's has been impaired. I thought they both had pretty good series, and their averages in the series were not far off their averages for the season. In contrast, Ginobili averaged 19.5 points on 46% shooting during the year, but is down to just 13.5 on 36% shooting against the Lakers, with equally substantial drops steals rebounds and assists (other categories where explosiveness come into play -- his free throw shooting, not surprisingly, has not declined).

Also, Shoals, I find it highly amusing that you had no objections last year when DLIC suggested that all the Spurs titles deserved asterisks for such ridiculous shit as an alleged "injury" to Kobe in 2003 (when he averaged 30 a game in that series against the Spurs) or Donaghy reffing one game against the Suns in 2007, yet are debating small details here when Manu has a real injury and Joey Fucking Crawford blew a game changing call against the team that got him suspended!

What could possibly be the basis for this disparity in reasoning?

At 5/28/2008 3:35 PM, Blogger Ty Keenan said...

It's really hard for me to believe that the officials are losing this series for the Spurs when Kobe didn't shoot a free throw the entire game. There's just no way that Kobe didn't get fouled on a shot attempt last night. That said, Fisher fouled Barry and they should have called it.

I'm somewhat upset that no one has reacted to Carter's insane proclivity for Charmed. As his roommate, I was hoping that putting this issue out into the open would show him that he needs help. (Of course, Doherty and Milano both fundamentally shaped my young self, so I can't really say too much here.)

The TNT ads have me caring about things no one should care about. The other day I saw an ad for House of Payne that said that the dad was "the funniest dad on TV." That immediately made me wonder if Bill Engvall cries when he sees that ad.

At 5/28/2008 3:37 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

That I never once said I agreed with the asteriks.

I'm just saying that, fine, Manu's hurt. But the Hornets' second and third best players were, too. Maybe not as badly, but they were limited. And they lost.

At 5/28/2008 3:43 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

re: TNT ads. This post is funny, and not just because it helps out with market research for the book.

In answer to this guy's concern, I fit the demographic that McDonald's chicken sandwich commercial is aimed at. I am a (somwhat) young, white male in old clothes who likes girls with bangs. I also have eaten more Chik-Fil-A sandwiches than anyone else on earth. Like I used to have two a day for lunch, to go with the chicken/biscuit combo for breakfast.

Gerald Wallace is also a huge fan. Hie pre-game ritual involves multiple ones hidden in weird places. That and bottles of cranberry juice.

Also, that Dockers commercial has thoroughly made me hate Marlena Shaq and "Check the Technique." Though it's probably a plus that "Spice of Life" is now off my want-list.

Now resume whatever we were talking about before.

At 5/28/2008 3:44 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

Marlena Shaw, obviously. "Marlena Shaq" is like a bad Photoshop joke this site would do if we ever did those.

(Note: That KG/Minor Threat thing was making fun of those Asian hero ones, and took me five hours to figure out)

At 5/28/2008 3:47 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

You never said you agreed with them. But you also didn't object to them the way you are now when I'm making credible arguments about a real injury, as opposed to the 2003 Kobe injury that Dr. LIC apparently invented.

It's these constant double standards that are so frustrating to me (flopping is a plague when Manu does it but adorable when Paul does it; it's cheap and evil to set a pick on West when he's injured but there's nothing wrong with Turiaf hammering Manu in traffic after the game had been decided; etc.)

At 5/28/2008 3:49 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

@brickowski: my point is that you cited to Simmons as Notradamus for saying the refs would hand a Lakers/Spurs series to LA, a prophecy in which he specifically talked about a huge free throw disparity. I was pointing out that you're bitching about one call and that the series has been called pretty fairly, if not in favor of the Spurs.

Thought was obvious....

At 5/28/2008 3:50 PM, Blogger Dr. Lawyer IndianChief said...

Re: Marlena Shaw....coincidentally that Kevin Durant Where Amazing Happens commercial has made me re-love Buck 65.

At 5/28/2008 3:55 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Don't fall for those McD's chicken sandwiches (unless you got it on the free day). I eat Chik-Fil-A 3 times a week, and the McDonald's sandwich is a bastardization.

Relatedly, my girlfriend has an obviously Hispanic last name and last week a Spanish language add with coupons for the biscuit and sandwich arrived at our place addressed to her, while I received nothing! So McDonalds is targeting not just basketball watching hipsters who love chicks with bangs, but also Mexicans.

At 5/28/2008 3:56 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

Also, Kobe is totally a sociopath, and I think my friend Ben has probably eaten more Chick-Fil-A sandwiches than Shoals.

At 5/28/2008 3:58 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

That's ridiculous. I was probably busy with the book or something, or relieved to have a day off from posting here, or otherwise distracted. I don't know. There are days where I don't closely monitor and assess every word written here, in posts or in comments.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I don't see the double standards here. Chris Paul is a genius point guard who sometimes flops. Flopping is central to Manu's game, the way inviting contact is to Iverson or Wade's. A hit off the ball, away from the action, especially one you put your whole lower body into, is worse than PLAYOFF BASKETBALL in traffic.

About Kobe: He was just saying "I'm not going to weigh in on that." Because he's not about to give credence to the other side, and anything he'd said pro-Lakers would've been empty. He knew it was a controversial call. What the fuck was he supposed to say?

It was smug, but mostly in the direction of "don't ask me about that."

At 5/28/2008 4:00 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At 5/28/2008 4:02 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

@ BR Esq: Don't you think you're being a little too literal? Simmons' point was that controversial officiating would help the Lakers beat the Spurs. That's exactly what happened.

No one here thinks it's a problem that America's most prominent/read sportswriter predicted this would happen months ago? Really?

At 5/28/2008 4:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Craig Sager: "So, Kobe - what did you think about that call? Was it a foul?"

Kobe: "No. No foul."

I'm just sayin'...

At 5/28/2008 4:03 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...


I forgot exactly where you are now, but pretty much anywhere is more up on marketing things to Hispanics than the Northwest. So I'm not holding my breath that my girlfriend with an obviously Hispanic last name will be getting that same coupon anytime soon.

Funny that, the day after we announce our biggest push for a wider audience yet, the site devolves into me, Brick, DLIC, and the Recluse arguing about the Spurs. That's about as OG as it gets.

And Recluse, your friend has probably lived in North Carolina for the past 15 years. I'm just saying that my Chik-Fil-A sandwich PER has to be a record.

At 5/28/2008 4:05 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

"No foul" with a smile/smirk.

Like "what the fuck do you expect me to say" and "damn we dodged a bullet there and it just happened and I have emotions about it"

At 5/28/2008 4:11 PM, Blogger Fredrik deBoer said...

Simple question: can anyone who watches a lot of NBA basketball claim that Kobe Bryant would not have gotten that call, in an identical situation? I don't know how anyone could, and that's the problem with the NBA, at the heart of it.

As far as preferring Dice getting his ring over Lamar Odom, well... yes. I don't particularly like Odom. Guess I'm not evolved....

At 5/28/2008 4:13 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Yeah, Shoals, that was my interpretation of Kobe's answer.

And I live in Athens, GA, where Chick is the only restaurant on campus and damn near every restaurant in town (even the vegetarian ones) offers their version of the chicken biscuit.

At 5/28/2008 4:16 PM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

Okay, I knew it was either Athens or San Antonio. For some reason I wasn't sure if you'd moved yet.

Southern student unions belong to Chik-Fil-A. I have no idea if I'm spelling it right. When I was at UT, I ate it for two meals at least four times a week.

Also, in Philly, I would drive out to King of Prussia for it. Though there probably was one closer.

At 5/28/2008 4:42 PM, Blogger Leonardson Saratoga said...

it may not only be a Southern thing. I think it has been replaced by a Subway, but for a long time the student union at Iowa State housed the only Chick-Fil-A in the entire state of Iowa. In a related story, I once went on a trip to Atlanta and ate two of those chicken bacon and cheese biscuits every morning. I fucking love that place.

At 5/28/2008 5:31 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

@Brick: The Lakers are up 3-1, and you're bitching about ONE SINGLE questionable call in an otherwise evenly officiated (or pro-Spurs) series. Fuck you if you're trying to say that a Lakers victory is now illegitimate. Don't be a Hillary, dude.

As other people have said, this was ONE CALL, and there were several other bad calls earlier in the game that helped the Spurs even be in the game at that point.

I wish they had called the foul, so the Lakers could've won in OT, and there wouldn't be any doubt who the better team is. I mean, I didn't call it, and I'm not defending it, but to say that the refs are giving the Lakers the series because the League wants them back in the Finals is dishonest and delusional.

At 5/28/2008 5:40 PM, Blogger salt_bagel said...

There's a Chick-Fil-A in King of Prussia?

At 5/28/2008 5:42 PM, Blogger Graydon said...

As a former Austinite and long-time devotee of the Chick-Fil-A nuggets I'm glad to see how this comment thread has developed. I'm also the guy wrote the post at 48 minutes of hell about the playoff commercials. I think a lot of my thoughts on the McDonald's commercial derived from the confused emotions I have about the NBA possibly becoming a "niche" sport. Shanoff and Ziller bumped heads about it the other day at BallHype. Maybe I just feel a sense of community with other NBA fans, driven by the poor ratings of the post-Jordan malaise years and the strong network we have online, but I am not actually sure what demographics that community derives from. Its far to simple to say african-americans and young white guys like the NBA. I also flipped a shit last night about the no-call on Barry but at this point have pretty much retracted back into a "fuck it" attitude. I'm a huge Spurs fan, but we played mediocre ball last night.

At 5/28/2008 5:42 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

Sorry for the F-bomb, Brick. You know we have love for you here at FD.

But, in any sort of contest, I hate it when people try to blame a loss on some bullshit instead of taking a loss like a man (no misogyny). I'm a trad fan in college basketball, and I know what it's like when your team loses a big game on a questionable call. For the sake of your own sanity, I urge you to get a little perspective on this. There are several bad calls in any game, all of which have an effect on the outcome of the game. You can't harp on one and ignore the rest of them. If the refs had been calling all of the games in favor of one team, I'd be more sympathetic, but that's just not the case here.

At 5/28/2008 5:42 PM, Blogger R. Lobstah said...

"Don't you think you're being a little too literal? Simmons' point was that controversial officiating would help the Lakers beat the Spurs. That's exactly what happened."

You want to ennoble the Spur's method by comparing it to a brick pounder as if there is an inevitability to the man pounding a rock to dust with his method. The fact is that men get old and tired and some bricks will survive the man. The point you don't seem to be taking on board is that controversial officiating kept the Spurs in the game. How would you be feeling if Duncan's four step, no dribble dunk had gone through the hoop as the buzzer expired in the fourth? How did you feel about the 1st quarter ending on Kobe getting hacked at the rim. How did you feel when your team got the ball with 2 seconds left even though Fish's shot hit the rim? I'm betting your fried chicken eating self felt relief rather then disgust.

rcwbhtt- Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles, bringing home the title

At 5/28/2008 5:47 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

Thank you, Lobstah, for saying what I was trying to say without the profanity.

Graydon, in addition to young white guys and African-Americans, Asians also tend to love the NBA.

At 5/28/2008 6:02 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

Jesus, Recluse, I thought this had subsided and I really don't understand the hostility. Please, please, please show me where I ever said the "refs were giving the Lakers the series because the League wants them back in the Finals." I never said anything close to that. In fact, I specifically said I don't believe in conspiracy theories, find a lot of that talk to have anti-semitic tones, and that I spent time yesterday arguing against the notion of NBA conspiracies.

But I do think having Joey Crawford blow that game changing call is extremely problematic. Especially when the most prominent American sportswriter had been predicting for months that the Spurs would lose to the Lakers on questionable officiating. Especially when Crawford has had two other prominent run-ins with the Spurs in the last year. There was no reason for him to be on the court last night. NONE.

As far as earlier calls, I think we can both point to incorrect calls that went against both teams. Like B & M, I was pretty sure that Farmar landed before kicking out to Sasha for the 4 point play. There was also an absurd call in the first half when Tony Parker was called for a double dribble (or travel) after the ball was clearly knocked out of his hand by a Laker.

But the key distinction between those calls and the Barry/Fisher play was that with earlier blown calls each team had an opportunity to fight through and overcome . Crawford's blown call ended the game. No second chances. And we can both agree that 3-1 is monumentally different than 2-2.

Regardless, I've good-naturedly put up with a lot of unfair bullshit said about the Spurs over the years (asterisks, etc), and it's obviously been an awful day to be a Spurs fan (not only getting screwed by Crawford but having our reloading plans suddenly dashed thanks to Splitter not wanting the weak American dollar). I think I have the right to express frustration over a call that everyone (you included) agrees was incorrect without being called "dishonest and delusional," or told "fuck you," or, worst of all, being compared to Hillary.

At 5/28/2008 6:05 PM, Blogger Graydon said...

Good point about the Asians. I'm just saying, there's a whole cross-section of little sub-cultures that are rubbing up against each other in basketball nowadays, from guys whose out-jazz aesthetic sense causes them to like Gerald Wallace's nebulous game (that was not meant to be a reference to Shoals) to mike krzyzewski right-wingers who find dunks to be the quiet contemporary equivalent of sitting at the front of the bus. But beyond some really simple race-based breakdown, I don't have a good sense of who actually likes the NBA.

At 5/28/2008 6:14 PM, Blogger mdesus said...

As for the demographics... Most young white guys I know prefer college ball. This is not true for the mud people tribe members. Us Jews love the NBA. So as a final tally we have black guys, asians, and jews. In other words NBA fans would clean up at the summer olympics in track and field and gymnastics, and be the finest group of mathletes repped by any sports fans.

At 5/28/2008 6:39 PM, Blogger Mark Scott said...

Barry taking the final shot reminded me of the last series when I watched in agony as Pargo launched ill-advised shot after ill-advised shot down the stretch. If you put the ball in the hands of some bench player in a pressure situation, you should only blame yourself when it doesn't work out.

Odom over Garnett. Odom over McDyess. I want to be the Lamar Odom of my life.

At 5/28/2008 6:49 PM, Blogger Brickowski said...

For what it's worth, ESPN also just highlighted the fact that Kobe changed his pivot foot before Fisher even put up the shot that allegedly grazed the rim. Hopefully they will show it again, but it should have been Spurs ball with 12 seconds or so instead of getting it with 2 seconds.

And that's all for me today. There's really nothing left to say once you've been compared to Hillary.

At 5/28/2008 7:04 PM, Blogger ItTakesAThiefToCatchAThief said...

Alright fellerz, enough.

Now, I <3 Lamar since Rhode Island. I <3ed him since that shot in the A-10 final. I - in the midst of foolish youth - deemed him the next Magic. I cursed the old stogy men who decried him for admitting to smoking weed. I wept with fear when he landed in the confines of Clipperhell. I wept with joy when he returned to the basketball God's bosom when he was paired with Wade, and then Kobe. I know Lamar Odom. I <3 Lamar Odom.

And KG is what Lamar wants to be. KG's possibly playing the best ball of his career, and the lack of recognition/respect that has been given to him for what he's done this year is....there is no word for it.

You want Odom to get a ring before KG? Come. the. fuck. on.

At 5/28/2008 7:05 PM, Blogger ItTakesAThiefToCatchAThief said...

And Brick - you're acting like someone who just watched their first playoff game.

At 5/28/2008 7:15 PM, Blogger Mr. Six said...

So, the theory in Spursland is that the NBA has conspired to limit the team to just 4 titles in 9 years? Or 6 in 11, if the team recovers next season?

Most teams wish they were the victim of such a dastardly plot.

At 5/28/2008 7:26 PM, Blogger Mr. Six said...

[I didn't mean to include you in that Brickowski, as you've clearly disclaimed any conspiracy.]

At 5/28/2008 7:34 PM, Blogger Steve S. said...

Barry/officiating conversation = over by decree.

For more enjoyable fare, here are some comments from my mom, who has started watching the NBA by conscious choice (and not by accident when I would watch the game growing up) this season, and turned 50 years old yesterday:

"Lamar played really well. I'm really proud of him."

"Kobe has grown up a lot. He used to be such, you know, kind of a little weenie."

At 5/28/2008 7:35 PM, Blogger Steve S. said...

my mom = totally fd

At 5/28/2008 8:05 PM, Blogger Wild Yams said...

You know, for the most part, the Spurs nation has been real even-keeled today after last night's loss, saying the Spurs didn't deserve it, saying the blown shot clock call seconds before Barry's last second heave negate the blown call on that play. Things like that. But there is some serious Spurs apologizing going on in here by a couple people right now, and a lot of pouting.

Last night the reffing was bad all around. Duncan traveled egregiously on a dunk, Farmar traveled egregiously on a pass that led to 4 points. The refs mistakenly stole what should have been the game's last possession from the Lakers by not recognizing Fisher's shot hit the rim, the refs stole the Spurs' last shot to tie it up with the blown call on Fish/Barry. The Spurs shot 26 FTs to the Lakers' 12 through 3 quarters, the Lakers shot 7 FTs to the Spurs' 0 in the 4th. Odom was in foul trouble most of the game, Kobe has only two total free throw attempts in the last three games (none last night), etc...

The refs have really had little impact on anything in this series, especially prior to last night. Two blowouts in which the officiating really doesn't matter, and one game where the Spurs just folded after being up 20 with 18 minutes to go when Kobe went nova. But what really gets me is the fucking whining about the plane and/or injuries. Listen, the Spurs could have had plenty of time to rest up if they hadn't laid an egg in any of the first three games in New Orleans. The Lakers took care of business on the third road game in the 2nd round, the Spurs just waited till the 4th road game in the 2nd round to pull it out. Blame them for that, not the NBA. As for the plane, that is also on San Antonio for insisting on using an airline which is going out of business in a matter of weeks. You get what you pay for, and caveat emptor. Finally, all the whining about Ginobili's ankle and how the Spurs would be so much better if he was healthy. You know what? At least the guy is playing. Why don't you complain to Andrew Bynum about how much it sucks to not have one of your key players at 100%.

The reality is the Spurs made their own bed and now they're having to lie in it. They made in the offseasons when they led Beno Udrih and Luis Scola go for nothing. They made it when they insisted on surrounding Duncan, Parker and Ginobili with the oldest collection of has-beens that the league's ever seen. In the wake of the Gasol/Shaq/Kidd trades they got Kurt Thomas to handle Shaq but did nothing to address the possibility of facing Gasol & Odom in the frontcourt together, and now it's coming home to roost (Kurt Thomas - 1 min of PT last night).

Quit making excuses, Spurs fans. The league isn't out to rob you, the refs aren't jobbing you, there is no conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy then your team was the beneficiaries of it more than anyone else has been in the last decade, so if you believe in the conspiracy just be thankful Stern helped you out in the past (Horry/Nash last year) and accept that it's someone else's turn. If you're a rational person who thinks the conspiracy theories are bogus, then just accept that the Spurs as currently constructed are not looking like a championship team this year. Don't worry though, I'm sure they'll be right back in the hunt next year once they drop some of that dead weight that's taking up a large portion of their bench.

At 5/29/2008 12:12 AM, Blogger Jason Gill said...

Seriously, how can anyone argue that this game was rigged for either team. At WORST that call was a terribly timed makeup call for that botched shot clock reset the previous play. In reality I just think refs aren't trained to call that play if it 1)wasn't on a shot attempt 2) the player plays right through it 3) it's the final play of the game and the shooter gets off a clean shot. This series is being terribly but equally officiated

The Pistons are the Lamar Odom of teams.

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