4.01.2009

The Great Debaters

-1

It's the showdown for NBA supremacy that's been brewing all season. Obama's weighed in; our two most involved posts of the season have been about the relationship between the two and how they fit into the same universe, respectively. And now, it's your turn to make your voices heard—first with your wallet, then on your chests, until such day as the thread of these garments unravel. Cop the Bron tee (just narrowly in time for D. Boon's birthday), or the Kobe in support of both his game and his unending attempts to claim Philly.

We're taking pre-orders now, but order promptly and you'll still have your shirt by the start of round one, if not sooner. Hopefully, you'll see someone on the street wearing the other one, and you can either kiss them like Judas or beat them to a fucking pulp. Either way, the conversation continues. God bless America.

Get ready to absorb another brand new shirt in about a week, as well as some portrait prints from the book we've had requests for.

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31 Comments:

At 4/02/2009 12:07 AM, Blogger D Keane said...

oh my god a "Double Nickles..." reference. I think I love you guys. It must have been hard to lay off "Political Song for Stephen Jackson to Sing."

 
At 4/02/2009 12:18 AM, Blogger Michael said...

See, now, this is all I was ever saying with the banners comment... I would way rather you do it this way! I love this stuff, we all obviously do, that's why we come here so often. Plus, when we get these kinds of products, we also get these mini-blogs from y'all, so that makes it even better.

(A couple technical notes, the links to the previous posts are just a little messed up and at the store, the Bron Greater Than tee's first line reads for Kobe. But those are quibbles.)

For the real matter...Damn you. My Lakers-devoted heart says Kobe. My basketball-worshipping mind says LeBron. Gotta go with heart. Especially on FreeDarko.

Here come the Playoffs!

 
At 4/02/2009 12:19 AM, OpenID Ben said...

Shoals, gotta hand it to you - these shirts are pure genius. Gotta stay true to the Lake show and get a kobe > lebron tee.

 
At 4/02/2009 12:28 AM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

Hand it to the entire FD team.

 
At 4/02/2009 3:38 AM, Blogger EL MIZ said...

genius idea, i can't wait to see somebody rocking one.

 
At 4/02/2009 7:28 AM, Blogger db said...

The best thing is that Wade isn't part of it, but then you'd have to introduce the referees as well.

BTW, the prints are excellent and the whole merchandising angle looks great.

 
At 4/02/2009 9:47 AM, Blogger FreeZarko said...

Love the shirts, but isn't this argument past expiration date? It was plausible 3 years ago, but there's no objective measure to prove Kobe's superiority today. Also, by most objective measures, Kobe comes short of Wade and Paul. And why are big men never included in these discussions (Howard? Duncan?). This all just feels so contrived.

 
At 4/02/2009 11:07 AM, Blogger spanish bombs said...

Kobe is more fun for me to watch. I can't say that I terribly care about which one is better on statistics or which one is more of a winner or which one I want taking the last shot. Plus, Kobe's old number was 8, which is just a sideways infinity, so he winssssssssss.

Anyway, that's also why big men are never included in these arguments (big men = lame), not that Howard or Duncan are anywhere near the level of Kobe or Lebron.

 
At 4/02/2009 11:21 AM, Blogger FreeZarko said...

I don't think Duncan is at Lebron's level, but he's certainly at Kobe's. They're at the same echelon when it comes to offensive efficiency, and Duncan's more valuable on D. The point is, why aren't the Bigs (Timmy, Dwight) even in the discussion?

 
At 4/02/2009 11:42 AM, Blogger W2 said...

The shirts are slick. I think this conversation does feel a bit forced, but don't you get the sense that mny fans from smaller or out-of-the-playoff markets are praying for a Lakes-Cavs Finals. Maybe to settle this debate and least for a season.

FYI, KG + Ray + PP/ Square root of Glenn Davis > LJ or KB.

Personally, if I was starting a team tomorrow I would take Chris Paul.

 
At 4/02/2009 1:19 PM, Blogger Brown Recluse, Esq. said...

I think it's hilarious that people are acting like we're the ones who made up this Kobe vs. Lebron thing, like every NBA commentator hasn't been talking about this all season.

 
At 4/02/2009 2:17 PM, Blogger spanish bombs said...

I thought my point was that big men and their post games (and getting points from being tall and dunking offensive rebounds) are boring.

 
At 4/02/2009 2:25 PM, Blogger FreeZarko said...

Yep, that's your main point, I should have phrased my response a bit better. I do want to know why we collectively forgot about Duncan, though. It can't just be the boredom factor (I remember the days when solemn announcers would condescendingly lecture us fans on Timmy's underappreciated fundamentalpalooza). Not that I miss a more center-obsessed era, I just want to know why they're underrated this day in age and not others.

 
At 4/02/2009 2:28 PM, Blogger MC Welk said...

math bows to money

 
At 4/02/2009 3:12 PM, Blogger spanish bombs said...

Well, I would disagree that Duncan's worth on defense places him on Kobe, Wade, or Paul's level, but perhaps the need to appreciate defense is the source of people not caring about bigs.

I look at defense as a foil for offensive awesomeness, but this is just me saying that I wouldn't care about big men in any era (unless of course they were doing sweet sky hooks).

For why we have "collectively forgot[ten]" about Duncan and Howard in framing the best player debate as between Kobe and Lebron (Wade got disqualified for cheating), I might suggest the rule changes from a few years ago that got rid of hand checking and added defensive three-seconds. At the very highest level of basketball, offense has a large advantage because of the crazy shit the best players can do. The rule changes stacked the deck and marginalized defense. (I think that the rule changes were needed and good, by the way, although 3 seconds seems a bit silly, and I wish that they would call blocks/charges/nothings correctly.) Thus, big men and their weightier defensive contributions pale in comparison to (with?) guards and their weightier offensive contributions. Plus, without handchecking and with the Mark Jackson rule, it is no longer a good option to throw the ball into a posting big man, further weakening the role of the big man. Duncan was ignored because his relative importance, due to rule changes, has gone way down.

 
At 4/02/2009 3:21 PM, Blogger Wild Yams said...

I'd just like to say that I don't think a Lakers-Cavs Finals matchup will settle the debate about which player is better between Kobe and LeBron, at least not if the Lakers win. IMO the Lakers have a pretty clear edge in that series, even w/o HCA, and it has nothing to do with Kobe possibly being better than LeBron. Especially if Bynum is healthy, I think the Lakers just have too many weapons for LeBron to essentially single-handedly beat; so if the Lakers did play Cleveland and won the title, I don't think that should in some way be an argument that Kobe is better than LeBron.

If the Cavs win, on the other hand, then I do think that's an argument for why LeBron is the better player (simply because he's one player overcoming not only his rival for "best player" but also a better team).

 
At 4/02/2009 3:30 PM, OpenID Jake said...

These are supernaturally fresh.

 
At 4/02/2009 3:39 PM, Blogger FreeZarko said...

Spanish Bombs, you make good points. I think another factor might be the rise of the three point shot. Hollinger wrote a recent column on this topic (the increase in threes taken, improved three point percentage, and the correlation between 3s and Ws). The game is being forced outside and so are the stars. Yet another reason why Oden over Durant will go down in infamy.

 
At 4/02/2009 4:18 PM, Blogger Robert said...

Since it appears that you are taking requests, I'd like to say that anything with Melo would be very welcome, and I would spend my money on it. Good money. US dollars, or Euros if you prefer.

Which is, in and of itself, a basketball analogy waiting to happen. But I leave that to you.

Just read the "Powder Blue Isotope" post. Sigh... Excellent. I am screening a JR shirt and I will definitely send you one. I believe the kid is a sufi mystic - no actual talent, just a conduit for God's Joy.

 
At 4/02/2009 5:34 PM, Blogger Alex G said...

You guys can start a clothing empire with this.

CP3 and D-Will next.

 
At 4/02/2009 6:08 PM, Blogger W2 said...

I am fully behind a JR Smith shirt.

A Delonte West T with some kind of shout out to playing like a reckless linebacker stuck in the body of a punter would find my backing as well.

 
At 4/02/2009 6:23 PM, Blogger Ben Q. Rock said...

@Alex G, SLCDunk already has an 8 > 3 shirt.

 
At 4/02/2009 6:49 PM, Blogger ZombieJesus said...

Love the idea here, but I'm really disappointed with the artistic effort on the shirt. I mean, I was expecting some sword v. hammer graphic or another way to have their style represented. Jersey numbers? Damn.


I'm hoping you put out a gorgeous Wade effort that will take the place of the late, great, Gilby ones of old.

 
At 4/02/2009 7:37 PM, Blogger Dave Fonseca said...

I would kind of prefer that the lebron shirt read "the new math" as opposed to "math bows to god." I mean, the kobe one is so smooth, and lebron's is kind of clunky and awkward. but, then again...

 
At 4/03/2009 6:24 AM, Blogger Karla said...

As a Lakers fan! I will order that shirt! Come playoff, lets rock!

*24>23
*Mamba > Lechoke!
Buck Foston! //give a reason to hate back!

U can make a customize shirt thru http://embracingoffers.com/Clothes.html entering vista print.

Book it!

 
At 4/03/2009 8:21 AM, Blogger dizzle said...

Zarko- A couple related thoughts. I agree big men are never really discussed as the games best (I think partly a function of perceived athleticism), but let's not forget that good big man is seen as the holy grail, and necessary for the playoffs/championship. While there are plenty of reasons oden/durant will go down in infamy, the inside/outside combo with roy I can't really argue.

 
At 4/03/2009 9:53 AM, Blogger Headless Chicken said...

I love the shirts, where it not for economic reasons I'd have ordered already. But I am with Zombie on this one, Style > Style would have been even more intriguing. Maybe you can even create this.

What does this captcha want to tell me? JUDAMET

 
At 4/03/2009 11:49 AM, Blogger appel82 said...

You guys are smart to sell these, I don't like the way they look though. Cashing in on this controversy is brilliant nonetheless.

I'd buy an FD hooded sweatshirt if y'all made one, maybe with an image of Miličić ripping his jersey?

 
At 4/03/2009 11:51 AM, Blogger Bethlehem Shoals said...

it's all in the words

 
At 4/03/2009 3:03 PM, Blogger Stumbleweed said...

Give me JR shirt.

 
At 4/04/2009 10:31 AM, Blogger wondahbap said...

"...by most objective measures..."

Always someone to ruin the the fun.

When you're done regurgitating Hollinger, maybe you can enjoy the shirts, and stop bringing lame "objectivity" to disprove actual accomplishments.

 

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