I would have been so much happier if my first impression ended up being correct--that the horse-backed man in the background was the Bronze Horseman and the foggy town pulsing with revolutionary fervor was St. Petersburg...some real Pushkin shit.
I hate hype and overhype as much as the next man, but... there hasn't been nearly enough hype yet for the Kobe vs. CP3 battle that will take place in two weeks. We're talking generational conflict here. The greatest player of his generation (and maybe the second greatest SG ever) vs. the a lock for the greatest point of all time (injury disaster withstanding). With LeBron possibly waiting in the wings. Can you dig it?
More needed recognition. Top 3 player in the Lig already and a full half foot shorter than L-Train and Mamba. Only 1 player in the Lig who wins a 1 on 1 matchup with him at the point cuz of said point's frame and Matt Barnes haircut. Oh and the number don't lie. They scream and shout but still few take notice cuz Mamba is the hot item on this year's MVP platter. Until NO beats San Antone and gives the Lakes a run for their money.
Whoa. CP3's been amazing in the playoffs, but when did he become "a lock for the greatest point of all time"? I think with a few more years like this one, he's Top 5 easily, but a lock for GOAT seems a little premature.
Come to think of it, could New Orleans be a kind of pre-revolutionary Mother Russia? The Katrina-ravaged city is 1917-era Russiaesque -- that is, the mid-war squalor, a fiddler/vaguely mystic fanatic behind the throne (Ray Nagin = Rasputin??).
"I hate hype and overhype as much as the next man, but... there hasn't been nearly enough hype yet for the Kobe vs. CP3 battle that will take place in two weeks."
Hah. This could be due to the fact that less than 24 hours ago most folks were not anticipating said matchup taking place...
Well, if you look at the analysis that Ziller did over at the Fanhouse, CP3 is clearly the best ever at his position statistically by age 22. Given how great his team has played despite what most have considered a somewhat weak supporting cast (compared to the other contenders), I think it's safe to say that it isn't just statistics that he has going for him. So really, he wouldn't even have to improve on this year's performance, just duplicate it, for the next five years and he'd already have five years better than any of his rivals.
Nothing is a lock in sports, but CP3 seems as close to a sure thing to as anybody not named LeBron. Yeah, we probably should wait a couple years before having GOAT conversations, but CP3 justifies all of the hype.
One thing I wonder about with Chris Paul is how much better he can legitimately get. He's limited as a rebounder by his size, and he's about as good a passer and dribbler as seems historically possible - do you see him turning the ball over less than he already does, or racking up more assists? His jumpshot is the only legitimate criticism, so if he's going to get better, it's going to be in the scoring realm.
I didn't say the GOAT; I said the greatest point of all time. Which, as Ethan pointed out, all he has to do is keep doing what he's doing - no need for improvement, either. He's already mentioned in the same breath as Isiah. Really astonishing - no one has ever had as many assists as Paul, as many steals, and turned the ball as little as he has this past year. He's about 100 turnovers ahead of most of the comparable seasons by points (Nash's best, Isiah's best, Magic's best, Stockton's best).
They didn't have turnovers in Oscar's day, so who knows how Paul compares to Robertson. But Paul's season is so good, should he repeated it for a few more seasons (again, health is the only thing that might derail him), he's toe-to-toe with Isiah and Oscar for the title.
CP3's legacy (and GOAT status) will be defined by the number of rings on his fingers when he retires - not the number of 20 pt 10 assist seasons he put up. (essentially why Nash will never be considered in this argument because he probably will never win a ring) And this year they have a legit chance of getting ring number 1.
When we say greatest point guard of all time, we are including Magic in this, right? Or are we going with the Simmonsesque greatest "pure point guard" which allows him to not include Magic. Magic was a point guard. And Paul's got well...a ways to go. Magic was a better passer, rebounder, and as for scoring, it's close but I give Magic the edge because of the post-up ability. At Pauul's age, Magic was winning his second Finals MVP, and was still five years from hitting his prime.
Magic is absolutely in the discussion. I disagree that Magic was a better passer (at age 22) though. Paul had more assists and fewer turnovers this season than Magic at the same age despite the Hornets having much fewer possessions per game than the showtime Lakers. You are right that scoring is close, but keep in mind that Magic had more weapons on his team and was asked to score less. I'm pretty sure Paul is a better shooter than Magic ever was (and should only get better).
As far as rings being the sole determinate of legacy, well I guess Melvin Ely is better than Barkley.
I don't buy the more rings equals better player argument either (there could be an infinite amount of examples: Kurt Rambis is better than Bird because he has four rings, etc.). But if Melvin Ely had two Finals MVPs (and eventually 3), then, yes, he might be better than Barkley. Certainly Paul has many years to match that.
Paul's a better shooter off the dribble, but by the end of his career, Magic's little set shot from outside was pretty effective. His best 3-point percentage was .384; Paul was .369 this year, but will likely get better with experience as well.
Paul is a good rebounder, for his size, but...size does matter. Magic could do everything Paul does--as far as controlling the game, setting up teammates, driving, going coast-to-coast--but could also bang inside, be a go-to post-up threat, etc. Being able to play 5 positions, that versatility, in addition to being the ideal point guard, is what made Magic one of the top 5 players of all-time. I'm just not ready to put Paul in that slot after three years and six playoff victories.
Time to go watch the 1985 Finals DVD (yes, I am admittedly biased).
I would have been so much happier if my first impression ended up being correct--that the horse-backed man in the background was the Bronze Horseman and the foggy town pulsing with revolutionary fervor was St. Petersburg...some real Pushkin shit.
ReplyDeleteevery revolutionary needs a true radical
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ejkiewicz.com/walls/Julian_set01b.jpg
I hate hype and overhype as much as the next man, but... there hasn't been nearly enough hype yet for the Kobe vs. CP3 battle that will take place in two weeks. We're talking generational conflict here. The greatest player of his generation (and maybe the second greatest SG ever) vs. the a lock for the greatest point of all time (injury disaster withstanding). With LeBron possibly waiting in the wings. Can you dig it?
ReplyDeleteN.O. We Can!
ReplyDeleteN.O. We Can!
More needed recognition. Top 3 player in the Lig already and a full half foot shorter than L-Train and Mamba. Only 1 player in the Lig who wins a 1 on 1 matchup with him at the point cuz of said point's frame and Matt Barnes haircut. Oh and the number don't lie. They scream and shout but still few take notice cuz Mamba is the hot item on this year's MVP platter. Until NO beats San Antone and gives the Lakes a run for their money.
ReplyDeleteOh, and the numbers:
7 playoff games
75 assists
9 (!) turnovers
Unbaweebabol
Whoa. CP3's been amazing in the playoffs, but when did he become "a lock for the greatest point of all time"? I think with a few more years like this one, he's Top 5 easily, but a lock for GOAT seems a little premature.
ReplyDeleteCome to think of it, could New Orleans be a kind of pre-revolutionary Mother Russia? The Katrina-ravaged city is 1917-era Russiaesque -- that is, the mid-war squalor, a fiddler/vaguely mystic fanatic behind the throne (Ray Nagin = Rasputin??).
ReplyDeleteSo is CP3 Lenin or Trotsky?
"I hate hype and overhype as much as the next man, but... there hasn't been nearly enough hype yet for the Kobe vs. CP3 battle that will take place in two weeks."
ReplyDeleteHah. This could be due to the fact that less than 24 hours ago most folks were not anticipating said matchup taking place...
Slow. Down.
Well, if you look at the analysis that Ziller did over at the Fanhouse, CP3 is clearly the best ever at his position statistically by age 22. Given how great his team has played despite what most have considered a somewhat weak supporting cast (compared to the other contenders), I think it's safe to say that it isn't just statistics that he has going for him. So really, he wouldn't even have to improve on this year's performance, just duplicate it, for the next five years and he'd already have five years better than any of his rivals.
ReplyDeleteNothing is a lock in sports, but CP3 seems as close to a sure thing to as anybody not named LeBron. Yeah, we probably should wait a couple years before having GOAT conversations, but CP3 justifies all of the hype.
Obama of the Bayou, indeed. I bet any "experienced" team out there right now would trade their playoff experience for CP3 in a heartbeat.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I wonder about with Chris Paul is how much better he can legitimately get. He's limited as a rebounder by his size, and he's about as good a passer and dribbler as seems historically possible - do you see him turning the ball over less than he already does, or racking up more assists? His jumpshot is the only legitimate criticism, so if he's going to get better, it's going to be in the scoring realm.
ReplyDelete@Saratoga,
ReplyDeleteIt may have been posed by someone before but Julian Wright is FD, no ?
He is the closet thing to the J-Rich of last year.
I didn't say the GOAT; I said the greatest point of all time. Which, as Ethan pointed out, all he has to do is keep doing what he's doing - no need for improvement, either. He's already mentioned in the same breath as Isiah. Really astonishing - no one has ever had as many assists as Paul, as many steals, and turned the ball as little as he has this past year. He's about 100 turnovers ahead of most of the comparable seasons by points (Nash's best, Isiah's best, Magic's best, Stockton's best).
ReplyDeleteThey didn't have turnovers in Oscar's day, so who knows how Paul compares to Robertson. But Paul's season is so good, should he repeated it for a few more seasons (again, health is the only thing that might derail him), he's toe-to-toe with Isiah and Oscar for the title.
sick pic, but wayyyy early, as everything is these days
ReplyDeleteCP3's legacy (and GOAT status) will be defined by the number of rings on his fingers when he retires - not the number of 20 pt 10 assist seasons he put up. (essentially why Nash will never be considered in this argument because he probably will never win a ring) And this year they have a legit chance of getting ring number 1.
ReplyDeleteI just feel that cp3 should've won the trophy but enought of that senseles debate, kobe is the MVP... and Paul get mvp awards too in the future..
ReplyDeletehttp://basketballnonsense.blogspot.com/
I didn't say the GOAT; I said the greatest point of all time.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I mean by my GOAT shorthand. Greatest (Point) Of All Time. G(P)OAT looks dumb.
When we say greatest point guard of all time, we are including Magic in this, right? Or are we going with the Simmonsesque greatest "pure point guard" which allows him to not include Magic. Magic was a point guard. And Paul's got well...a ways to go. Magic was a better passer, rebounder, and as for scoring, it's close but I give Magic the edge because of the post-up ability. At Pauul's age, Magic was winning his second Finals MVP, and was still five years from hitting his prime.
ReplyDeleteFor his size, Paul is an excellent rebounder. Averaged 5 per his rookie year. Still got 4 this year which is better than every pg except JKidd.
ReplyDeleteS.F.,
ReplyDeleteMagic is absolutely in the discussion. I disagree that Magic was a better passer (at age 22) though. Paul had more assists and fewer turnovers this season than Magic at the same age despite the Hornets having much fewer possessions per game than the showtime Lakers. You are right that scoring is close, but keep in mind that Magic had more weapons on his team and was asked to score less. I'm pretty sure Paul is a better shooter than Magic ever was (and should only get better).
As far as rings being the sole determinate of legacy, well I guess Melvin Ely is better than Barkley.
I don't buy the more rings equals better player argument either (there could be an infinite amount of examples: Kurt Rambis is better than Bird because he has four rings, etc.). But if Melvin Ely had two Finals MVPs (and eventually 3), then, yes, he might be better than Barkley. Certainly Paul has many years to match that.
ReplyDeletePaul's a better shooter off the dribble, but by the end of his career, Magic's little set shot from outside was pretty effective. His best 3-point percentage was .384; Paul was .369 this year, but will likely get better with experience as well.
Paul is a good rebounder, for his size, but...size does matter. Magic could do everything Paul does--as far as controlling the game, setting up teammates, driving, going coast-to-coast--but could also bang inside, be a go-to post-up threat, etc. Being able to play 5 positions, that versatility, in addition to being the ideal point guard, is what made Magic one of the top 5 players of all-time. I'm just not ready to put Paul in that slot after three years and six playoff victories.
Time to go watch the 1985 Finals DVD (yes, I am admittedly biased).
How much do you guys think that the hand-checking rules benefit Paul? Don't they kind of distort the numbers in his argument for G(P)OAT?
ReplyDeleteGood point Ed. Someone needs to do an analysis of stats/PER compared to other point guards in that era.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, does anyone else see the similarities b/w Chris Paul and Obama??
http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2008/04/satan-is-real.html
ReplyDelete